How Film Can Stay on Top for the Next Few Decades...

[Alex]

For the past few decades, 35mm has carried EVERY other film and video format on its back!

I mean EVERY other film and video format, 16mm, Super-8, VHS, Super-VHS, 8mm video, Hi-8 video, 3/4, 3/4 SP, BetaCam, BetaCam SP, One-Inch Video, Laser Disc, DVD...all of these formats have benefited from 35mm.

Transferring 35mm to ANY other film or inferior video format made that other format look pretty darned good!

You want to make one inch video look like a million bucks, Transfer a 35mm movie to that video format.
And so on down the line.

So it dawns on me that if those who love and appreciate film want to see it survive and thrive for the next 50 years, they need to make a stand.

A Video Format Stand!

Film should invent a video format that supercedes what already exists, and make it EXCLUSIVELY a FILM ONLY transfering format.

I would design this video film machine with a unique characteristic, NO VIDEO INPUTS except for digital cloning capability (hehehehe). However, I would make the back output connector panel accessible to EVERY video format that is made, in both PAL and NTSC.

The final aggressive manuever I would make is to make the video deck as affordable as possible.

The real film revolution would begin...ANYONE could shoot film, get a video version of the utmost quality, yet be able to afford the video format it was recorded to so they could import it into the digital editing suite of their choice.

This would also force the HD digital revolution to survive on it's own. [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]

The key for this idea to work is to make the High Resolution Film/Video Machine be INEXPENSIVE.

Sure Rank Transfer costs may still be expensive (although less expensive because the video decks cost less, a nominal but yet noticeable drop in price could occur)

I'm talking an affordable film video machine to the point where any school or small video company would not hestiate to own one.

One aspect of filmmaking that gets overlooked is that once you spend the money to shoot film, who can afford a digital betacam transfer and then who can afford the cost of a digital betacam player for non-linear editing purposes? Certainly less than 1/10 of 1 percent of all of those who currently edit in Non-linear.

Of course, HD is even more expensive than digital betacam, and as a result, many don't consider film as an option not just for the production cost aspect, but also because of the post-production requirements, especially the lower budgeted productions.

If a new, inexpensive high quality film/video format were created EXCLUSIVELY for film transferring, many more would shoot film and reap the full benefit.

As it stands right now, the explosion in digital editing revolves around an affordable yet inferior video format, firewire/Mini-DV.

If Film produced their own video format that was just knock your socks off quality, but not knock your socks off cost, Film would have nothing to fear for the foreseeable future.

[Mike Buckles]

While I've heard that other video formats are superior, since I've started using MiniDV/firewire, I've heard nothing but praise from those who see the results...so much better than the VHS I used to use, and the final copy hasn't been reduced by 3 or 4 generations due to editing and special/sound effects. Granted, it isn't HD, but I really like it, and the results are great for me. I still prefer the look of super8, but for long projects such as the sheet metal worker's convention I just shot and edited, minidv was great! I would add, that minidv does not look as good with the one chip cameras, and those I cannot recommend...they don't look as good as the 3 chippers! Mike

[rollemfilm]

It's film prices that create the great devide. Film prices must come down via increased production via increased demand. Buy and use film and film based products.

[crimsonson]

sorry dude at this time its a pipe dream for
"cheap high quality"

HD is currently the highest quality for video (108p).

there are non tape based formats out there but you still need a tpae format to use such item (like the new 10 bit, 4:4:4 Videp camera with NO image processing)
but the cost....
Sorry it aint gonna happen - if its video someone will try to slap a lens on front of it!!

Alex there is format that is mainly used for film - digital laser scanning aka Arri Laser.


"If a new, inexpensive high quality film/video format were created EXCLUSIVELY for film transferring, many more would shoot film and reap the full benefit.
As it stands right now, the explosion in digital editing revolves around an affordable yet inferior video format, firewire/Mini-DV."


But you are missing something here... How are you going to show your film? Film or video? If film then again back to the cost of film printing!! If video then you are again reduced to the quality of your monitor!!

Second you are missing why DV/Firewire is popular - cost, ease of use, non proprietary tech, and easily implementable.

For higher digital quality there is SDI (though Apple and Panasonic is plannig to support lower res HD [aka 480p, and 720] on firewire very soon!!)


Also, when you get your filmcentric video format that is very high quality and cheap - it will replace DV and then increase the decline of film as a narative format!! In essence this video format will bite the hands that feeds it - film!!! you are not going to stop manufacturers from making it available to the general public (as a deck or camera or whatever) if $$$ is to be made. Adn you are not going to be able to stop indie filmmakers, computer nerds, curious individuals to demand it as a deck or camera.


Here is another thing to think about - a new CCD technology should hit the street late this year or early next year. You will find it first in digital cameras and then video cameras.

The new CCDs will be able to capture at about 300% more color and overall detail than the currect CCD. Think of video cameras with megapixels of high end digital cameras and its not even HD!! Foveon's F7 CCD tech!!

http://www.foveon.com/X3_tech.html

Plus every imgaing company in the world is trying to find new CCD tech. Fuji has one also coming called Super CCD and Kodak is developing their own.

So F7 with HHD is a scary but wonderful future for video.
But I will still probably looking to buy one of those Super Speed Leicina Special (capable of 120 fps) [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 04, 2002 08:35 PM: Message edited by: crimsonson ]</font>

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by crimsonson:

Sorry it aint gonna happen - if its video someone will try to slap a lens on front of it!!

</font></font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this is the crux of the issue. Video is soooo backwards that film keeps helping video, but it is never the other way around.

My point is there would be no lens slapped in the front of this film-based video format. As you recall, when firewire first came out, the initial cameras had firewire out, but no firewire in!

This was because manufacturers were afraid of lossless digital cloning cutting into all kind of duplication revenue.

I think that concept could work for a film based video machine. Only FILM will be recorded on the medium because the film-based video format will be linked to a sophisticated transfer system.

But once the film transfer is completed to this exclusive film/video format machine, the machines will NOT work with standard video as an incoming source, because there will be no incoming connectors on the machine except for, digital cloning from another film/video format machine and an interface for film transfers to the format.

So you won't be able to put a "lens on it". This yet to be invented recordable format could even be designed to NOT be ENG friendly, such as one-inch video. (although someone did design a "portable one-inch video unit that made the camera assistant look like they were an astronaut on the moon!)

And of course, when one is done editing on their "off-line" firewire NLE, the Edit Decision List will simply re-render from the original Transfer at High quality.

Remember, this special Film Transfer Video Format can be output to ANY video format, so the machine itself can be used for video projection. Because the machine will be under $10,000, many facilities will own one.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 05, 2002 12:26 AM: Message edited by: Alex ]</font>

[toad_dance]

there are quite a few digital video directors in my area,bt I am the sole super-8 director.They don't like me much they think super 8,and film for that matter is dead.It's kinda a war out here,I'm happy to see there are other who share my love of film 8mmm super 8 and otherwise!